s5 ep5 – erin barnes

Erin Barnes is the founder of Next Generation Wellness and is also the author The Whole Life Success Planner and My Best Life Planner – for kids. Erin thought outside the box when deciding to become an author, by creating a practical diary that engages readers in a hands-on way with her content.

She combined her lived experience with many years of study to become a Physical Health, Mental Wellbeing and Stress Resilience Specialist and creator of the 4Cs Methodology, which allows sustainable behaviour change, stress resilience and high performance among individuals and organisations.

Her holistic approach to wellness has been taken to the next level with the release of her planners, which are transforming entire households.

You can get your hands on her planners here.

Watch the video above or read on for the full interview transcript:

Roxanne – Hello everyone, welcome to The Phoenix Phenomenon. I am your host, Coast Writer Roxanne McCarty-O’Kane. Thank you for joining us for another episode where we delve into the transformative process of becoming an author and talk to the change-makers, who know this journey all too well. Today I’m joined by Erin Barnes who is a specialist in physical health, mental wellbeing and stress resilience. She founded Next Generation Wellness and created the 4Cs methodology, which allows sustainable behavior change, stress resilience and high-performance among individuals and organizations. The 4Cs methodology is very unique as it blends the latest science and research across positive psychology, neuroscience leadership, nutrition, human biology, mindfulness emotional literacy and exercise physiology. I had no idea you can combine so many elements. It’s amazing. And the reason that Erin is joining us here today to talk about authorship, is that she’s also created a whole life success planner and my best life planners for kids. So our first planners on this series and they are absolutely fabulous. So this is the grown-up version. It’s so beautiful, I just love holding it. So everyone, a bit of a run down about all of your amazing skills. And I know that there’s a lot more that I haven’t mentioned but can you tell us a little bit about the journey that you led on and your lived experience that got you into the field you’re in now?

Erin – Sure, so 20 years ago, actually it’s probably a bit more, every year passes and I think I better regroup on that probably a little bit more than that, but about 20 years ago, when I studied formally around exercise science, human movement and psychology. It was really interesting so that we’re all together to work out human performance and how we can get the best out of our body and brain and all of those things. And it was really interesting because at that time in my second year of uni, I went from training at elite level for netball, to in a three month period. All that just being taken out from under me. So I went from that to then being unable to walk, being unable to do anything. And as a duet, that was probably the hardest bit, real, that relentless fatigue. And so I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis which is fairly common these days, unfortunately, auto immune diseases are, but back then, the best they could do was say, I’m sorry take these medication, the best you can do is minimize the damage, by the time you’re 40, you won’t most likely be walking. You certainly might be playing sport. Thank goodness we got to that age and we’re good but it led me on this process, of I was very you know, show me the science behind everything. So if there was someone that was closed book like this about anything to do with mindfulness or anything that I couldn’t see, I was the one the biggest skeptic in the world. And whilst a lot of those practices are very common today. I weren’t then, so after I got out of that little pity party of, this isn’t fair I’m studying how to do all this stuff and be the best and have potential and be optimal health. And I wasn’t. Once I got past that, I started to really look at what were those missing links. And it did definitely lead me into the place of more that emotional and mental stress and the impact that, that had on the body. And again, it’s very common these days to understand it but it wasn’t then. So my process was trial and error, trial and error. What worked for me and I was a very resistant and slow learner with a lot of those modalities. So what I look at now and what makes perfect sense to me is that I was an absolute control freak, and that control or need for control came from my personality type, which is one that is hold self to high levels, high standards, so a perfectionist type of person. I also had that overfunctioning anxiety which means you can be effective but the anxiety is having a stress response inside the body and causing all sorts of damage. And I was also someone that was very so personality wise, was very pessimistic. So the caution side would come out. And so all of those things stack together just meant that inside the body, the inflammation was high. So it wasn’t just about food and exercise and the things that we knew about the physical body, it was the whole stacking game of all of it. So soon as you start to unpack and we’re not looking for that quick fix, then we can do it. So I guess, yeah, the culmination of all of this is that work, and then working with people and understanding how incredibly unique we are. And whilst there are patterns, we’ve got to do the work to find our unique triggers and things that are playing a part. Yeah.

Roxanne – Absolutely and obviously you came from an elite sporting background but I’d love to find out, the kinds of people that you are working with. Are you seeing people from all walks of life, going on with you?

Erin – Yes, it’s funny in business because you’re told in business to niche down and work with certain people. It does not work for me. Most of the work comes through referrals. Of course, if someone knows someone that’s challenged they could be any age, any gender, children, adults, workplaces, so it’s really broad. I Guess the majority of people that I work with, are typically, they’re not people that believe that there’s anything wrong with them necessarily. There are people that have that mindset of these could be better, so they are sort of not high-performance. But there are people that know that there’s a process to things and things aren’t a quick fix. So they realize it’s a journey not a workshop really, to make changes.

Roxanne – Absolutely, oh that’s great, and I understand I’m putting you on the spot with this question, but the 4Cs methodology just has me intrigued. I’d love to see if you could maybe, give us a little bit of insight into how that works in practice. And yeah, about the 4Cs.

Erin – Yeah so the 4Cs basically, they actually sit over the brain and the parts of the brain that lead us to do something. So if we think of the brain, we have this part that prefrontal cortex that says we are capable of anything so pure potential. However, we only use that about 5% of the time. And so we’re on autopilot a lot of the time. There’s also this part that’s the reticular activating system that lets us see what we believe. So we’re getting 4 billion bits of information that hit the brain every second. And we can only process about 2000 of those, and the things that we process and take on, are the things, you know they’re supported by what we believe, so those beliefs are created when we’re about eight years old. So for many of us, although we have potential, we caught up in this autopilot thinking, which leads this signaling to action parts of the brain to say, stop, go, all of these things. So it was very much an understanding of whilst, so many people may know what to do. There’s a lot of outdated information that needs rejigging but even when we know it’s not that simple to actually put it into practice. Because we were on autopilot so much. So the 4Cs stand for clarity. So there is no way that we can achieve a goal or move towards change of any kind, if we are not crystal clear on what we’re doing. So the clarity piece is when I work with people or when they do this work themselves around any changes around knowing what the big picture is, the direction they wanting to go to. It is around their personality type, their emotional needs, their human human needs around their intrinsic motivators. All these understanding of who am I as a person? Compared to maybe who I was told I was, or the identity or self concept that I created when I was a kid. So we look at all those fears and those limiting beliefs, and we begin to change that because what I see in society, a lot these days is that we’re chasing societal goals, and we’re trying to do what other people value and not what we value, so it’s coming back to all those important things like value. So clarity is one, once we’re crystal clear on that, often what needs to happen is we need to work on these conflicts in our brain that says, I want that, but actually this little part that eight year old part of me says, you’re kidding yourself who do you think you are? Or any variation of that. So the next bit is building this conviction around the fact that actually it is possible which takes interrupting autopilot. So we’re bringing that frontal cortex online a bit more. So that takes, whilst I love self-awareness we’ve already gone through a whole process when we get to be self-aware. So the process of how I work with the 4Cs, and the planner is about how do we put little things, in to actually interrupt us through the day, to input new data so that we can build that conviction. So the brain doesn’t know what’s real and what’s not. So it’s a matter of let’s override it and make that dream voice louder than the fear voice. So that’s the conviction bit through a lot of different thinking practices and doing, and then it’s around consistency. So my belief is that consistency is our position. So it’s not about if we’re looking at health, it’s not about having the green smoothie each morning but then eating rubbish for the rest of the day, or it’s this consistency, is it? So it’s around again, how do we build in the consistent patterns to support what we’re seeking and support the mental change and the behavioral change, so that it suits our lifestyle? Not what everyone else is doing too. So once we get to that consistency level, the fourth C is charged. So this is this place of, we’ve got really good accountability practices in place, we’ve got this posture of integrity and self-confidence to know that there’s nothing wrong with us. It’s just some wiring sometimes, or the things that have stuck together to take us away. So it’s a brain process linked with a body process linked with a behavioral process. And the same thing with coaching, if there’s just one minor area that people work with, it might be self-confidence, we can go, let’s get clarity on what that looks like, let’s build in those things. And so it’s just a very clear process of the things we need for the brain to change.

Roxanne – Absolutely, you make it sound so like, not easy, but like just so clear, like there’s so much, so many different elements going on there, but yeah. It all makes perfect sense.

Erin – Yeah It’s simple to understand, it’s just, sometimes we’re hard on ourselves because it’s hard to continue with. So I think once we understand how it works and how complex it is, we can start to focus on the little wins, which help us to move forward in things but we will need the quick fix, so often these days.

Roxanne – Absolutely yes, that’s differently a pandemic in itself, isn’t it? The quick fix.

Erin – Absolutely.

Roxanne – All right, excellent, and so I’d love to find out more about how your planners came to be. I mean, with something as complex as what you do that there was potential to sit down and poured all that into a traditional style book. But I love that you’ve taken that and chosen to create something that is tangible and practical that people can actually work with. So yeah tell me about how the seeds were first planted for that.

Erin – Yeah, well actually, the 4Cs book was always there, and it was going to be this mix of story probably more other people’s story because, you know we’re never very good at telling our own or feeling like that it’s important. So that sat there and it kept sitting there and so it never came to fruition. And that came through just the frustrations, I think in my industry around the fact that when we’re in challenge, we try and find the solution in that moment. And usually the reason that is occurring is through the stacking game of years of stuff. And so I was always challenged when people would say, or tell me what to eat, or tell me what to do to get this thing, and, even if it was a health, physical health, weight loss issue, or a pain issue, people would want the food and exercise. I was like, okay. And I used to get so frustrated to try. And I felt like when I was trying to explain it all there’s more to this, and I don’t want you to fall short on this, that it was too complex to do in workshops, it’s too complex because you needed, it’s a process. So interestingly enough, all these backend, the internal pages in terms of the content was there because it was what I had developed over that 20 years and what I would work with people on, but I was sending it back and forth and I was sending it to me. It was another frustration around all of us, that when I would sit there with somebody and say, well tell me what precedes that behavior. what’s the thinking what’s, we don’t know. Because we’re so busy and distracted most of the day that we can’t pinpoint that. Or we might say, oh I don’t have confidence or something broad. But we’re not sure on what that internal dialogue is saying. So what I guess is the internal page was what I used to give to people to use consistently so that they could see their patterns of thinking and feeling and behaving, and start to understand that lot of things that they can do is within their control. But when COVID hit, it was this moment of, do what? I was talking to a lot of people and their work had been taken away from them. And so they were really lacking this feeling of meaning and purpose. So it was like, well, we can bring that back. It’s just a formula, so how do we do that? And then I thought, actually, kids need this. Most of my outcome focuses on the next generation. And so it is how do we, as parents learn it? And how do children learn the skill from a young age? And how do all personality types learn to be accountable to self not just the process driven people? All right, we need to pull these together, and we needed a hands-on tool, because a lot of people were not, and understandably, we’re not going to commit to paying money to work one-on-one with people. And there’s a lot of programs, but again we fall short because we’re left to our own devices a little bit in our own minds. So the process of these two planners was actually a full week from let’s do this to design, to print, so it was intense. And it was really busy making sure it all went together properly. But the work was really the 20 years before of all the work that I had done with people. So it’s a different process, it wasn’t like birthing a novel type book, and beautiful Larissa Tickle, that tickle design, she designed them all, so it was so lovely just to say, here it all is, can you make it look pretty and make it right? And also my sister from The Splendid Word, she did a lot of the copywriting and things to make sure that it was okay. But, then it was self-published from that point. And you know what, sometimes when the necessity is there, you get out of your own head and you just make it happen. And so that was definitely the process to really bring something together that allowed people to have a sense of purpose in their life, but learn the wellbeing skills all the variety of things that we need in a day to raise optimism. There’s the optimism practices in there, which at that point, when COVID hit, gosh that was important to make sure that we were bringing in each day, as someone that wasn’t very good at taking time out for self, for mindfulness practices. I could achieve, I could do those success goals, but those eulogy virtues of being mindfulness, empathetic, optimistic all of those types of things, wasn’t really my skill. So it was like the person that wants to achieve, the planner allowed them to put in pockets, schedule, as a schedule, a schedule mindfulness. And so I came to life pretty quickly, but it’s been really well received and, you know people get to do it their way, which is nice.

Roxanne – Absolutely, yeah. And it’s stunning, like even just feeling the cover, it looks like you’ve gone all out, with making something that people can really connect with, and you know that they want to hold it, they want to explore it’s pages. It’s yeah, It’s just such a good planner.

Erin – And, well, it was interesting, because when the first batch that got printed, I couldn’t get them printed hard cover as quickly as I wanted to, we just needed them out. So the first batch were just the soft cover, and I was using it going, this just, it doesn’t work for me. I needed to lay open on my desk for the day I needed in my bag, I needed it to be fairly sturdy, I need the ribbon, I had to do it that way. So we just had to be patient with there is a perfectionist in me going, it’s not right, I’m not happy, but now they’re just, yeah, much more pleasurable to use.

Roxanne – Absolutely, though that’s amazing, and it sounds like, even from the get-go, you were very clear on the vision and the path is for these planners. But I do ask just as a general practice with this show, if there were any moments where you know that inner voice did pop up unexpectedly and unwelcome to, as they do, or were you, yes, you’re nodding and shaking so.

Erin – Yeah, I don’t think anyone’s immune to that, are they? I think in whatever we do, particularly if we’re putting our own work out to be criticized and judged, and my other greatest fear is criticism. So yes, of course, I think the timing, and the inability to have any space to give it much thought it just had to go. And so my belief is around any thing that we do. If the necessity is not driving us, if there’s not either somebody else’s need, which is stronger or our own, then we won’t get anything done. And so usually if I just had the desire to release that for me, it wouldn’t have been enough. That sneaky voice would have come in every time, who do you think you are? And that had imposter syndrome in the whole thing. But the necessity was when I was speaking to people each day, thinking they don’t have the funds to be able to invest in this. They need something to keep their head in the right spot and to feel like their life has purpose. It was much easier to do. Yeah. But it was certainly there, certainly. It’s like, how we’re you to do this? Oh, of course.

Roxanne – And how did you combat that? What was your way of, you know in that voice in its place?

Erin – Luckily, I was honestly just talking to enough people each day and hearing that need, so it was, you need it, you need it, get out of your own way. And yeah, it was definitely stopping that and focusing on what people were really challenged with, and they were, that fear and uncertainty, and just that ability to bring logic to a day and get out of that storyline and emotion and feel that sense of control in a day was just really important at that point. And I didn’t want people printing out pages every day and trying to do it that way. It’s just, every barrier we have to behavior change will get in the way. So we just needed to make it as simple as possible. I think it’s a really nice thing for us all to remember that we all doubt, and so the moment we go to judge I think we have to pull ourselves back and go, you know what nothing in the world would get created for us to enjoy. If everyone felt the resistance too much or was judged too much to ever release it. I think it’s good learning for all of us.

Roxanne – Absolutely, and it just goes to show, that when you’ve got a powerful, why, like you’re always going to be propelled for when, and you’re always gonna see it through so-

Erin – Differently.

Roxanne – Beautiful, all right. And so what sort of feedback have you been getting from people?

Erin – What I’m loving is, and my intention was, knowing personality types, was very much around how can I develop this, so that it’s okay for everyone, because you say the word planner to the real playful type of personality type, and they’re, I’m not planning my life. I like spontaneity, it’s fun. So when they get to understand that actually their greatest fear is letting people down and not being liked. And when they actually plan a little bit more they can fit more into their day. But they can still have the spontaneity. They can just be values driven about, and intentional about what they’re choosing. So what I’ve loved hearing the most is from who aren’t those planning type to realize how it’s given them this sense of self-confidence around actually, they’re more capable of following through, on things and making things on time and all of those challenges that they have. So those weaknesses with our personality types, I’m watching how it strengthens each of them, if we use it the way that we need to use it for us. With the kids, the best thing I love is when so when families use them together as a real ritual, I think building rituals in it’s proven to raise performance any ritual based thing that we do. And so when I sit with the kids we normally do the planning for the next day, the night before. And so then in the car on the way to school they do all their morning intention work. And it’s a really nice thing to do to talk about meaningful things on the way to school. So what it’s done with some families is bring just a few moments together, which wasn’t there. So I’m loving that, and I’m loving people being able to see their patterns and see it in a lot that’s not self pretty cool, in a lot that says, I understand how the brain works. It’s not an identity. It’s just something that I have to understand and build consistency around to change. But it’s been very varied in terms of how people use it and what they’re using in loving the most different for different people. So many things.

Roxanne – Oh, no, I can see how that lights you up. It’s lovely.

Erin – Yeah ’cause we’re hard on ourselves. And so it’s just this really nice realization for people that we’re all human, there’s lots of things in play, but which things are the things I need to focus on now, that are within my control to work on. And it just brings that personal integrity and accountability back, and rather than destruction and trying to do everything for everyone, which is great.

Roxanne – Absolutely, oh, that’s wonderful. And the title of this show is, “The Phoenix Phenomenon”. And so I always ask every guest, you know what sort of transformation did you see in yourself or even in your business, in the process of becoming an author and getting these planners out into the world?

Erin – Yeah, there’s probably a few things. Well, lots of things really, I think from a business perspective, it’s certainly given people an ability to toe dip into to work it’s at a good price point, so people can begin that process. Personally, definitely in my personality type, I don’t normally doubt my ability to get things done. I can do, but what it’s allowed me to do is to have much more confidence in the power of that work altogether, that synergistic effect of body, brain, and behavior. And that just means for someone who, up until the age of seven, really didn’t speak to people, up until about 35 years of age would choke on my saliva, if someone spoke to me, it’s given clarity around and actually looking back on, I was really hard on myself about my study because as I got older I thought I should’ve gone more into just straight nutrition or I should have gone straight into this, rather than the broader aspects. I guess it’s really allowed me to bring it, to get from a personal aspect to say, there’s a reason for that. Because the broad elements are very important right now. There’s not one solution to a mental health problem. There’s not one solution to a health problem. So it’s given me confidence in my work that it’s important and that it was a right the way that it went to get me to where I am.

Roxanne – Absolutely oh that’s beautiful. And I think what I find a lot too, is that people don’t realize how much they know and how much they have to share with the world until they actually have to sit down and document it in some way, shape or form.

Erin – I agree oh it’s so much so, yeah, definitely. And it’s when you do that, that you look back and think, oh all that challenge and all that difficulty it all makes sense. And we don’t wanna hear that when we’re going through tough times, do we? We don’t wanna be told, there’ll be a gift in it or it’ll make sense, but it really does when you give space and have to bring something together from a lifetime of work. So, great.

Roxanne – Wonderful, and you’ve mentioned the first incarnation, of the whole Life Success Planner was a softcover, so tell me what it was like to hold that first physical copy with your hard cover, like your dream planner, essentially.

Erin – That’s really funny, I don’t know people get so excited. I felt nauseous it arrives oh, no same story. What if no one likes it? What if not, that whole dialogue came in. What if it’s not good enough? What if the first page I opened there’s mistakes? So these whole range of things. So they sat, I had to deliver them, ’cause they were pre-orders so we just got them out. But I actually didn’t sit there and open it for about 10 days. So I think I can’t look at it. I had to just see the success of what other people were seeing before I was brave enough to actually open the doors. So bizarre, kids when I could, the kids when I was okay with it. ‘Cause it was pretty and colorful and I was just acknowledging the design work not looking at the functionality of it, but no, it was hard. It was not what I would’ve expected actually.

Roxanne – Yeah, yeah, that’s really interesting. So it didn’t take long for the feedback to start coming in and for you to kind of take that breath.

Erin – No, after a couple of weeks, postage was a bit slow but after a couple of weeks where you started to see it come through and yeah, it’s great. I mean it’s, and I got to use it then, to start to go, yes this is how it was meant to be designed and it does what it should do. I mean, from the outside, it looks like a planner and yes there’s pages in those foundational pages around stress and emotional intelligence and all of those things, values. But what sits even in the daily words, and then the evening ones is all science back. So it was very nerve wracking to say, all right, well I know that logically, that makes sense based on that research but when it all comes together in one book, will it be effective as an outcome focused person? But then I was hearing those stories and yeah, that Was lovely. That’s what we need, I think when we put something out there sometimes we only hear the negative feedback and I haven’t had any yet, which is lovely but it’s really nice to take. And I appreciate people that take the time to write those little emails and messages, it’s lovely.

Roxanne – Excellent, oh, that’s wonderful. And I’m curious to find out, obviously there are still restrictions on travel and events and that sort of thing going on, but what’s your grand vision for the planner, are you looking to establish it as a as a really strong pillar for your business going forward?

Erin – Yeah, look, it’s starting to go that way. I’ve got three online programs, reset programs. So there’s body, let’s say parenting it’s about wellbeing, leading a home and also a life reset. And so the planner blends with that, it’s their personal accountability on what they’re learning outside of it. And in workplaces, it’s the foundational to I think corporate wellbeing or workplace wellness, has become this thing that’s so unaffordable for so many small businesses. So again, it’s this really nice, I wanna make health and wellbeing affordable. And unfortunately it’s getting a long way from that. So it’s this tool that I think, it starts the process with people, they can do it on their terms and it’s affordable in workplaces. So it’s certainly my first place to go with people. Just the process, which is lovely, rather than just saying, you know what, sit one-to-one and let me ask you all about your deepest, darkest secrets. People don’t want it, I wouldn’t wanna do that. So yes it’s like the first step in any of my work. And the thing that I will talk about with people in terms of the challenges, it’s a really easy spot to start with things.

Roxanne – Absolutely, sorry. My guess is that when people go through the planner and they take that time, they are allowing themselves to be vulnerable with themselves and exploring these different parts of their emotions, their feelings, what’s going on in their body, that by the time they can reach out and connect with you they’re gonna be a lot clearer, on what it is that they actually need assistance.

Erin – It’s making my job so much easier, so much easier. And those patterns, it’s just lovely to back that sense of control to people which we really love. External landscape can’t control but our behaviors we can but if we don’t really know what’s happening underneath with all of it, it’s really hard to feel that sense of controlling behaviors and to give space to actually consider what we want in life, what our values are, what’s important to us instead of repeating generations of values. So yeah, it’s made life much, much easier. And for the kids it’s been lovely to watch their emotional intelligence grow to be able to, when they’re in anger, all of us, to be able to say, even if we act badly to be able to circle back and say, I’m sorry, this is what was happening inside my body, this is the emotions, it’s what the thinking was. Just makes it easier on everyone.

Roxanne – Yeah, absolutely, because I know your kids are getting stuck into their planners. Aren’t they at home? Which is really awesome.

Erin – They sure are, they have their elements of gratitude in it too. So, oh it’s here, I got the one which is all colorful and lovely, but I was chuckling today at some of their things that they were grateful for, beautiful insights into them. With both the planners, it’s this nice thing of it’s not an all, they don’t do it every day. That’s not its intention, it’s just a ritual that we come together and do. It gives them a moment to be heard. That their voice matters. All those things that in busy parenting, we feel like we’re doing badly, we feel like we’re not giving them our ear properly, So there’s, yeah, there’s lots of little minor benefits to it that I’m loving the process of, and if that helps other people, then that’s awesome.

Roxanne – Really, that’s excellent, thank you. And I would, as someone who has gone through the process of bringing these two planners to life, I’d love to get some advice that you might have for aspiring authors who, they may be looking at planners or autobiographies, memoirs to kind of get them off the fence and to get them bringing their dreams alive. What would be your best advice for them?

Erin – My advice would be to find that necessity piece, it’s a tough road on anything to step out and put something into the world. And when you’re putting yourself up for judgment, look outside of self first, because we won’t find the necessity within ourselves, unless we’ve been perhaps through real trauma. So it would be find the necessity, find somebody else’s story, someone else’s reason to need to have that book. And that’s your driver. And you would have to go to that, again the brain doesn’t know what’s real and what’s not. So revisiting that story of that person multiple times a day and watching that sneaky brain, that work of pattern interrupting to say that conviction of I can do this. This person needs to hear it and keep chugging forward and the gifts on the other side are great. But that normalizing to the what I’m feeling in that self doubt, there is not one human being that doesn’t have that we’ve just got to stop listening to it as much as we do.

Roxanne – Absolutely, and you probably wouldn’t be surprised by this but every single guest that I’ve had on the show since I started has had a self-therapy going on for sure, like even, national bestsellers, they still get it when they’re releasing their latest books.

Erin – It’s just that really nice bit of the brain saying be careful, do a good job, that’s all it is. It’s not there to say you’re not good enough, that we can interpret as that if we choose to, it’s watching it so sneaky.

Roxanne – Absolutely that’s great, and hopefully everyone’s a lot more aware of that after hearing your chat today, so thank you. Before I let you go, I would love to give people some ideas of how they can connect with you how they can get their hands on some of the beautiful planners and get started at home.

Erin – Yeah so my website is nextgenerationwellness.com.I U I’m across all the social platforms, except Twitter and Tik TOK, but all the other ones I’m there, if you’re searching Next Generation Wellness that’s where you’ll find me, and the planners are on the website and they’re linked through most of the social channels too. There’s a whole range of things. So there’s just things to digest about. A lot of those virtues around things like confidence and connection all those things that we don’t grow up learning. And they’re just really nice starting points for people as well.

Roxanne – Excellent, okay hat’s great. We’ll make sure that yeah of anything, and Erin has shared a lot with us today but if anything has connected with you, that you check out the platforms, get your hands on some of these planners and just go to town. I think you’d be very pleasantly surprised with what you’re able to uncover about yourself. And as Erin mentioned in these incredibly busy times, just taking that space for yourself can make the world of difference in the way that you are feeling, the way that you are interacting with the people around you. So it’s such a beautiful resource to have. So thank you so, so much for your time today Erin and for sharing everything that you have.

Erin – Thank you it’s a pleasure, absolute pleasure.

Roxanne – Okay take care.